A guy I work with is involved in a big mega-church here in Chicago, and they are going to have some "high-level speakers" (his words) involved in an ID/evolution debate at their church next week. So my co- worker asks me if I had a question or two that he would take to the presentation, knowing that I sit here at work reading T.O. I was going to bring up something more philosophy-of-science related, such as the materialism inherent in the scientific method, but wanted to know if anyone had any more technical questions that would be better to ask such luminaries. So if you had one question to ask a proponent of ID who claimed to know what he was talking about, what would you ask? (And I mean seriously, I'm not gonna write "Why are you guys such liars?" or "How'd that Dover thing turn out?")
In article <41cd396a-da6d-4f4c-a6c5-0c03f1e38...@v13g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
slothrop <slothrop1...@hotmail.com> wrote: > A guy I work with is involved in a big mega-church here in Chicago, > and they are going to have some "high-level speakers" (his words) > involved in an ID/evolution debate at their church next week. So my co- > worker asks me if I had a question or two that he would take to the > presentation, knowing that I sit here at work reading T.O. > I was going to bring up something more philosophy-of-science related, > such as the materialism inherent in the scientific method, but wanted > to know if anyone had any more technical questions that would be > better to ask such luminaries. > So if you had one question to ask a proponent of ID who claimed to > know what he was talking about, what would you ask? (And I mean > seriously, I'm not gonna write "Why are you guys such liars?" or > "How'd that Dover thing turn out?")
"Since neither the Discovery Institute nor anyone else has published any substantial work in this field in the past half-dozen years, since none of it has been reviewed by other competent scientists, and since none of it has contributed in any way to the benefit of science, technology, or society as a whole, why are you trying to teach it to high school science students?"
-- Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com Official naysayer of the DARPA kind, who knows only of what¹s accepted by the Old Testament of the Zionist/Nazi New World Order which refuses to accept or allow deductive reasoning.
On Jul 24, 1:46 pm, slothrop <slothrop1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> A guy I work with is involved in a big mega-church here in Chicago, > and they are going to have some "high-level speakers" (his words) > involved in an ID/evolution debate at their church next week. So my co- > worker asks me if I had a question or two that he would take to the > presentation, knowing that I sit here at work reading T.O. > I was going to bring up something more philosophy-of-science related, > such as the materialism inherent in the scientific method, but wanted > to know if anyone had any more technical questions that would be > better to ask such luminaries. > So if you had one question to ask a proponent of ID who claimed to > know what he was talking about, what would you ask? (And I mean > seriously, I'm not gonna write "Why are you guys such liars?" or > "How'd that Dover thing turn out?")
There is only one question that matters:
"What is the scientific theory of intelligent design, and how can we test it using the scientific method?"
================================================ Lenny Flank "There are no loose threads in the web of life"
> On Jul 24, 1:46 pm, slothrop <slothrop1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > A guy I work with is involved in a big mega-church here in Chicago, > > and they are going to have some "high-level speakers" (his words) > > involved in an ID/evolution debate at their church next week. So my co- > > worker asks me if I had a question or two that he would take to the > > presentation, knowing that I sit here at work reading T.O. > > I was going to bring up something more philosophy-of-science related, > > such as the materialism inherent in the scientific method, but wanted > > to know if anyone had any more technical questions that would be > > better to ask such luminaries. > > So if you had one question to ask a proponent of ID who claimed to > > know what he was talking about, what would you ask? (And I mean > > seriously, I'm not gonna write "Why are you guys such liars?" or > > "How'd that Dover thing turn out?")
> There is only one question that matters:
> "What is the scientific theory of intelligent design, and how can we > test it using the scientific method?"
I like Mr. Flank's question better than mine, but I think it might be interesting to ask how "Information" is defined by the ID folks and how they measure it.
> > On Jul 24, 1:46 pm, slothrop <slothrop1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > A guy I work with is involved in a big mega-church here in Chicago, > > > and they are going to have some "high-level speakers" (his words) > > > involved in an ID/evolution debate at their church next week. So my co- > > > worker asks me if I had a question or two that he would take to the > > > presentation, knowing that I sit here at work reading T.O. > > > I was going to bring up something more philosophy-of-science related, > > > such as the materialism inherent in the scientific method, but wanted > > > to know if anyone had any more technical questions that would be > > > better to ask such luminaries. > > > So if you had one question to ask a proponent of ID who claimed to > > > know what he was talking about, what would you ask? (And I mean > > > seriously, I'm not gonna write "Why are you guys such liars?" or > > > "How'd that Dover thing turn out?")
> > There is only one question that matters:
> > "What is the scientific theory of intelligent design, and how can we > > test it using the scientific method?"
> I like Mr. Flank's question better than mine, but I think it might be > interesting to ask how "Information" is defined by the ID folks and > how they measure it.-
I suspect the ID hack's "answer" to BOTH of our questions will be "we don't advocate teaching ID theory -- all we want to do is teach the controversy about the problems with evolution".
To which the obvious question would be "when did you STOP advocating ID as an alternative scientifivc theory, and why?"
The answer to that question, of course, starts with a "D" and ends with an "O-V-E-R".
And he won't want to talk about that . . . .
================================================ Lenny Flank "There are no loose threads in the web of life"
On 24 Jul., 21:18, "'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank" <lfl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "What is the scientific theory of intelligent design, and how can we > test it using the scientific method?"
Precisely. It's my exprience that this questing will stop any ID proponent. Then after a pause to recovery they will start saying somthing that doesn't answer the question. And when pressed for an answer they will get angry to the verge of physical attack. They idea is to never get sidetracked by what the are saying but keep insisting they answer the question. It's quite funny.
> > > > A guy I work with is involved in a big mega-church here in Chicago, > > > > and they are going to have some "high-level speakers" (his words) > > > > involved in an ID/evolution debate at their church next week. So my co- > > > > worker asks me if I had a question or two that he would take to the > > > > presentation, knowing that I sit here at work reading T.O. > > > > I was going to bring up something more philosophy-of-science related, > > > > such as the materialism inherent in the scientific method, but wanted > > > > to know if anyone had any more technical questions that would be > > > > better to ask such luminaries. > > > > So if you had one question to ask a proponent of ID who claimed to > > > > know what he was talking about, what would you ask? (And I mean > > > > seriously, I'm not gonna write "Why are you guys such liars?" or > > > > "How'd that Dover thing turn out?")
> > > There is only one question that matters:
> > > "What is the scientific theory of intelligent design, and how can we > > > test it using the scientific method?"
> > I like Mr. Flank's question better than mine, but I think it might be > > interesting to ask how "Information" is defined by the ID folks and > > how they measure it.-
> I suspect the ID hack's "answer" to BOTH of our questions will be "we > don't advocate teaching ID theory -- all we want to do is teach the > controversy about the problems with evolution".
> To which the obvious question would be "when did you STOP advocating > ID as an alternative scientifivc theory, and why?"
> The answer to that question, of course, starts with a "D" and ends > with an "O-V-E-R".
> And he won't want to talk about that . . . .
I don't know, if that's really how they feel there isn't much point in them even using the words "Intelligent Design." If they don't have a theory and don't want one, what meaning does the term have?
>A guy I work with is involved in a big mega-church here in Chicago, >and they are going to have some "high-level speakers" (his words) >involved in an ID/evolution debate at their church next week. So my co- >worker asks me if I had a question or two that he would take to the >presentation, knowing that I sit here at work reading T.O. >I was going to bring up something more philosophy-of-science related, >such as the materialism inherent in the scientific method, but wanted >to know if anyone had any more technical questions that would be >better to ask such luminaries. >So if you had one question to ask a proponent of ID who claimed to >know what he was talking about, what would you ask? (And I mean >seriously, I'm not gonna write "Why are you guys such liars?" or >"How'd that Dover thing turn out?")
What, in a sentence or three, is the theory of ID? What testable predictions does it make? What would falsify it? How does one differentiate between naturally occurring complexity and design, other than Argument from Personal Incredulity?
> A guy I work with is involved in a big mega-church here in Chicago, > and they are going to have some "high-level speakers" (his words) > involved in an ID/evolution debate at their church next week. So my co- > worker asks me if I had a question or two that he would take to the > presentation, knowing that I sit here at work reading T.O. > I was going to bring up something more philosophy-of-science related, > such as the materialism inherent in the scientific method, but wanted > to know if anyone had any more technical questions that would be > better to ask such luminaries. > So if you had one question to ask a proponent of ID who claimed to > know what he was talking about, what would you ask? (And I mean > seriously, I'm not gonna write "Why are you guys such liars?" or > "How'd that Dover thing turn out?")
> thanks, > slothrop
How about:
"If you were allowed to teach "Intelligent Design" in classrooms tomorrow, what would you teach?
> > > > > A guy I work with is involved in a big mega-church here in Chicago, > > > > > and they are going to have some "high-level speakers" (his words) > > > > > involved in an ID/evolution debate at their church next week. So my co- > > > > > worker asks me if I had a question or two that he would take to the > > > > > presentation, knowing that I sit here at work reading T.O. > > > > > I was going to bring up something more philosophy-of-science related, > > > > > such as the materialism inherent in the scientific method, but wanted > > > > > to know if anyone had any more technical questions that would be > > > > > better to ask such luminaries. > > > > > So if you had one question to ask a proponent of ID who claimed to > > > > > know what he was talking about, what would you ask? (And I mean > > > > > seriously, I'm not gonna write "Why are you guys such liars?" or > > > > > "How'd that Dover thing turn out?")
> > > > There is only one question that matters:
> > > > "What is the scientific theory of intelligent design, and how can we > > > > test it using the scientific method?"
> > > I like Mr. Flank's question better than mine, but I think it might be > > > interesting to ask how "Information" is defined by the ID folks and > > > how they measure it.-
> > I suspect the ID hack's "answer" to BOTH of our questions will be "we > > don't advocate teaching ID theory -- all we want to do is teach the > > controversy about the problems with evolution".
> > To which the obvious question would be "when did you STOP advocating > > ID as an alternative scientifivc theory, and why?"
> > The answer to that question, of course, starts with a "D" and ends > > with an "O-V-E-R".
> > And he won't want to talk about that . . . .
> I don't know, if that's really how they feel there isn't much point in > them even using the words "Intelligent Design." If they don't have a > theory and don't want one, what meaning does the term have?-
It DOESN'T have any meaning, now. In the wake of Dover, the IDers are utterly desperate to AVOID using the words "intelligent design theory" -- indeed they now try to pretend that "intelligent design theory" never even happened, and their current "teach the controversy" crap doesn't have ANYTHING to do with "intelligent design theory", no sirree Bob.
It's just another example of their crashing dishonesty.
================================================ Lenny Flank "There are no loose threads in the web of life"
